00:00:00
Voice-over: 100 days to success. This is the podcast from G_NIUS, the Guichet national de l'innovation et des usages en e-santé. Around Lionel Reichardt, meet e-health innovators and key experts to help you succeed in your projects.

00:00:20
Lionel Reichardt: Hello everyone! You're listening to "100 Days to Success" the podcast aimed at innovators and entrepreneurs in digital healthcare, but also anyone curious about this field. This podcast is produced by G_NIUS, the Guichet national de l'innovation et des usages en e-santé. In this episode, we'll be talking about the local ecosystem on which a digital health project leader can rely. To do so, we welcome Elisa Grimoin, co-founder and CEO of DEIGMA, a digital solution for the traceability of blood samples, a solution she developed in her home region of Normandy. We also welcome Gérald Comtet, director of i-Care Lab, the Health Lab of the Auvergne Rhône-Alpes region.

00:01:04
Lionel Reichardt: Elisa Grimoin, hello and thank you for agreeing to share your experience with us. Can you first tell us about your training and background?

00:01:11
Elisa Grimoin: So, indeed, I'm originally from Normandy and did all my studies there. I started with a bachelor's and a master's degree in biology with a specialty in neuroscience and then I continued. I did the trio up to the thesis where I did a PhD in neuroscience and worked more specifically on the functioning of the cerebral immune system and stroke and arterial hypertension.

00:01:40
Lionel Reichardt: You founded the DEIGMA company in 2019. What is its ambition?

00:01:44
Elisa Grimoin: DEIGMA, a company that specializes in the healthcare sector and is particularly interested in the traceability of blood samples. When I talk about blood samples, we're particularly interested in samples that are taken outside the laboratory, which are then transported to the laboratory for analysis. Why are we interested in this, since they are more subject to non-quality through the transport of these samples. So our ambition is to be able to guarantee the reliability of the transport of blood samples to ensure the quality of the results delivered to patients. To achieve this, we have created an IoT platform that enables the traceability of these samples on a number of different parameters. This ranges from the traceability of information linked to the samples. For example, who the patient is, the prescription and the tube number. But it also concerns the quality of transport, for example, what is the temperature of the tube environment during transport? What are the transport times? Who is involved? And the aim is to ensure that the conditions are in place to guarantee the healthcare system. Our ambition is, of course, to address the European market. First of all, the French market, since it is in fact subject to an international standard, ISO 15189, which medical biology laboratories must comply with to guarantee the quality of healthcare in France. But this is also valid abroad, particularly in Europe, for which there is this need for traceability of blood samples.

00:03:33
Lionel Reichardt: You're originally from Normandy and you created your company in your regional ecosystem. It started, I believe, with a Startup Weekend. Can you tell us a little about how it happened?

00:03:43
Elisa Grimoin: There were 11 of us. In fact, I proposed a project and I think it was selected, we put together a team and we worked on it for three days and it was really exceptional. It really made me want to say to myself, maybe now I'm a grown-up and maybe now I can set up my own business. And as part of Startup Weekend, there was the innovation ecosystem. So Normandie Incubation was present at this Startup Weekend. And while I was talking to them, they told me about the Sterne program. The idea is that ten entrepreneurs arrive with a project that's really at the ideation stage. It could be the very beginning of the project. Ten entrepreneurs from very different backgrounds and on very different subjects, who meet once a week for three months with an expert on a subject related to entrepreneurship. The aim is to be able to cover all entrepreneurial topics in three months. For example, digital marketing, targeting customers, financing? All subjects related to entrepreneurship. And for me, it was the perfect format, since I didn't come from this ecosystem at all, it enabled me to start tackling all these points and also to build up my weapons to go further behind. When I arrived at Sterne, I didn't have a precise idea of what kind of company I wanted to set up. I wanted to set up a company, but in the end, there are so many fascinating subjects and I'm sure I'm not the only one facing this problem. What projects should I set up? Why this project rather than another? I had a long list that ranged from popularizing science for patients to a project to travel around the world. I chose a project at random for this training course, since I had to submit a project file. And then I took the plunge and was accepted. As it happens, the first speaker on the course was a seasoned entrepreneur with over 30 years' experience in digital technologies and innovation, who gave us an introduction to entrepreneurship. The questions to ask yourself are: are your loved ones involved, do they support you? Do you want to join forces? What financial resources do you have to move your project forward? All the basic questions you need to ask yourself, which are essential if you are to move forward serenely in this adventure. And after that first day, I got back in touch with him and told him I'd like to meet up because I've got a problem, I've got lots of ideas, but I don't know what kind of project to set up. He met me. We spent half a day together discussing the project ideas I had, and he told me that with his partners Frank and Nicolas, they had a project idea in a drawer based on technologies in which he had expertise. They were looking for someone who had the shoulders and the guts to take on a project that wasn't originally mine. We embarked on this adventure, and that's how we became partners and created DEIGMA. During those three months, I was able to work and progress on DEIGMA, so that at the end of those three months, I had enough of a basis to be able to apply to join Normandie Incubation. And in fact, I was able to join Normandie Incubation, which has been very interesting for us, as there are many benefits. I was able to benefit from expert support on a whole range of different subjects, from digital marketing to communication, the famous subjects we were talking about earlier. I was able to benefit from a 20,000 euro repayable advance, premises and an ecosystem. And that's really very important, because there are other entrepreneurs in the incubator with whom you can exchange ideas, because you're going to face the same problems. And it's really important not to feel alone. There are the former incubatees, who are also mentors who can come and advise us on their life paths and, by the same token, ours. I was also able to benefit from something that helped me a lot, because at the time, I was unemployed and I was able to benefit from what's called a young creator's allowance from the university for one year, since I was a project leader in the incubator and had graduated less than two years earlier. So all that helped me to build myself and DEIGMA. Normandie Incubation lasted a year and a half and by the end of that year, we had a company up and running, a website, a validated MVP and our first partnerships. We had taken part in a trade show and finally, we were able to leave the incubator with all the resources we needed to launch our business on a fully independent basis. What was also very important was that Normandie Incubation was a gateway to financial support structures. For example, in the Normandy ecosystem, and particularly in Calvados, Initiative Calvados supported us with a 30,000 euro loan, a 30,000 euro honor loan, and Bpifrance supported us with the French Tech grant of 30,000 euros too. So, this enables us to get started and make the first investments, to be able to start marketing. And when you're just starting out with this type of project, it's really very important. If I'm talking about the ecosystem around us, we relied on a laboratory in Normandy to be able to start exchanging ideas about our product and get feedback, to be able to set up experiments, which is really very, very important when you're still at the start of a project and build a product that is perfectly in tune with market needs. And geographical proximity makes it much easier to meet people. You can go to a restaurant, you can have a coffee. You can create much stronger relationships than you can from a distance, I think.

00:10:13
Lionel Reichardt: So we can clearly see the central role played by Normandie Incubation. But there was also the city of Caen, which helped you find your premises. The Normandie TES competitiveness cluster, French Tech Normandie too, the Calvados initiative you mentioned, Normandie Santé, the BPI and its local branch. So you've had a lot of help. When you want to set up your project, how do you find out about the services and facilities available around you, who to contact and, above all, who does what?

00:10:43
Elisa Grimoin: I think the best way to get the right information is to be interested, to talk, to exchange, to communicate, to surround yourself well, to be curious, not to be afraid, to be yourself and to give in order to receive too and in the end, that's done quite easily, what's most difficult is to open the first door. Once you're in the ecosystem of innovation, start-ups and entrepreneurship, all you have to do is turn your head, talk to your neighbor and you're bound to get some pointers and an interesting exchange. And that's how we'll be able to find out who BPI and the competitiveness clusters are. It's also important to understand how these structures work, beyond just knowing that they exist. A competitiveness cluster is a structure that can be strategic for a company, but it's important to know how to approach it, what the company's needs are at a given moment, so that we can let others help us with this problem. If we ourselves are not aware of the problem, if we don't identify it concretely or if we don't communicate about it, we won't get help with it. It's really important to surround ourselves well and to feel comfortable in this environment that's becoming ours. I think it's also important to get involved and open up to other subjects, not to be focused solely on your company. For my part, I've been involved in a number of boards of directors. We're currently in the process of setting up a HealthTech network with a number of entrepreneurs and our local ecosystem, as well as a competitiveness cluster with the city. And for me personally, it's shaping me. It makes me grow, but I hope it helps others too. And that's how we structure ourselves. That's how you learn. It's by doing, by not being afraid and by being yourself, by being happy to do what you do, because you stay yourself and because others will appreciate you being yourself.

00:13:27
Lionel Reichardt: To conclude, Elisa Grimoin, what advice would you give to a digital health innovator who would like to benefit from the best of their local ecosystem?

00:13:35
Elisa Grimoin: It's important, obviously, to have spent most of your time on your product, on your market, on marketing. But it's also important to dedicate time to your ecosystem, your environment, your network. It's the best way to get the right information, to get feedback that enables us to go much faster and much further, and to avoid making the same mistakes as others. So it's really important to surround yourself with the right people, with your associates too, and not to be on your own. Surround yourself with other entrepreneurs who are at the same stage as you are. And to get involved in your environment, so as to provide feedback, expertise and experience to others. Because it's normal that it's not a one-way street. I could also add that it's the sincerity of our curiosity that enables us to gather the right information and surround ourselves with the right people, so that we're not alone and we get a lot of pleasure from what we do. Because there have been times when I've wanted to do things so badly that I've been focused on doing things properly rather than enjoying my job. In fact, I think you're never as good as when you're doing things for pleasure, so to always try to keep that in mind.

00:15:05
Lionel Reichardt: Elisa Grimoin, Thank you for your testimonial.

00:15:12
Lionel Reichardt: Are you wondering how to work with your local ecosystem? Elements of an answer with Gérald Comtet, director of i-Care LAB, the e-health Lab for the Auvergne Rhône-Alpes region. Gérald Comtet, good morning. First of all, can you tell us about your background and training?

00:15:29
Gérald Comtet: Actually, my background is scientific. First I did physiology, then cognitive psychology to get a degree in ergonomics, cognitive ergonomics. This was my first foray into the world of healthcare, since ergonomics led me to work initially with digital devices and robotics, in this case in the field of neurosurgery. And then, gradually, in a rather special environment, I became interested in telemedicine and the use of digital technologies to provide services that are as close as possible to the health of the French armed forces in the armed forces health service. This led me, in the early 2000s, to explore telemedicine issues, in a role involving the implementation of experiments and field experience, in contact with innovation, with this digital innovation in healthcare which was in its infancy one might say. At some point, I decided to take a step back from my observations. In any case, my investment in the field of telemedicine to focus a little more on the study of innovation processes, in this case in conjunction with the Ecole des Mines de Paris, to understand in the end, what was an innovator? How to innovate? Which organizations were innovative and which were not? And gradually, this led me to question myself and find a position and a role in the process of innovation in healthcare today, and more specifically in healthcare technologies. It's true that my position as an ergonomist makes my job easier, in a way, by having a sharp eye for technology, but also for usage, for how healthcare workers and patients use the healthcare technologies that are now virtually part of our daily lives. We saw this again in the recent health crisis.

00:17:40
Lionel Reichardt: You run i-Care Lab. Can you tell us about its genesis and main missions?

00:17:46
Gérald Comtet: i-Care Lab is ultimately a fairly recent initiative, which was taken in the Auvergne Rhône-Alpes region, which originated in a cluster-type dynamic since i-Care Lab Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes was born out of the i-Care cluster, which was launched in the early 2010s by the Auvergne Rhône-Alpes region. The initial aim of the i-Care cluster was to provide services and initiatives for industrial players in the tech santé sector: digital medical devices for health. These actions are similar to those of competitive clusters. I know that today, all French regions have competitiveness clusters, which provide services to help companies become more competitive. For ten years or so, we worked in close contact with companies to provide services in the fields of innovation, business development, regulatory affairs and international affairs. Then, in late 2020, by mutual agreement with local partners and stakeholders in the ecosystem, we decided to transform the historic i-Care cluster initiative into i-Care Lab, which in fact remains an associative structure in which, in addition to industrialists, we now include institutional players. Several local institutions are now represented on the Board of Directors. The Lyonbiopôle competitiveness cluster, which was our counterpart in the fields of competitiveness of the historical clusters on this theme. And above all, healthcare players. When I say healthcare players, I mean institutions. They also include the communities of territories, the famous CPTS, which have recently been set up. In any case, the diversity of healthcare players, whether public, private or not-for-profit in the region. The aim of i-Care Lab is to act as a network, an interface, in contact with users of the healthcare system, users who are healthcare professionals, in conjunction with the companies and public authorities represented in the region. Overall, we provide a number of services, all geared towards the emergence of new projects. It's true that when you have ideas in the healthcare world, whether it's a patient or a healthcare teacher, or even someone from outside the system, it's sometimes difficult to find people to challenge your idea, to support it. So we've made it our mission, through hackathon and creative sprint-type schemes, to facilitate the emergence of new ideas, with the aim of helping to transform the healthcare system. We're dealing with a slightly more organizational notion of technological innovation, even if technology always arrives at a given moment. In this case, solutions are often devised in addition to organizational transformations. And then, the second aspect, which is that of Lab Santé, is to support or, at any rate, co-pilot experiments. So, we're at the opposite end of the spectrum from the problem of emergence, at the other end of the innovation process. We're talking about experimentation when we've already developed a solution and we're trying to test it with users, with the ecosystem and stakeholders. And here, we're at work on several subjects. In the past, we were involved in a project called "Territoires de soins numériques" (Digital Care Territories), where we facilitated hybridization between companies on the one hand, and local players, EHPADs and other healthcare establishments on the other. Then, more recently, we were involved in Article 51, a scheme supported by the French health insurance scheme to experiment with new organizations. And so, we played a co-piloting role in an Article 51 project concerning home immunotherapy with the reference center, the Léon Bérard Cancer Center.

00:22:08
Lionel Reichardt: Is it important, especially in healthcare, to work at a local level?

00:22:12
Gérald Comtet: It's true that innovation in healthcare is sometimes complex to grasp. Our advice to the various people who come to us for help, whether companies or project leaders, is first and foremost to get to grips with innovation. First of all, they need to explore their immediate environment, their immediate territorial environment, because in the Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes region, we have a fairly diverse representation of healthcare issues. And based on these different opportunities, we can clearly imagine with the people who approach us, the project leaders, the ability to either come and challenge their solutions with local contacts, or to go and try them out. And even if you're already planning to go to another region, or another country, the ease of interaction that i-Care Lab fosters in a way, the ease of questioning stakeholders directly present in the area, seems extremely interesting since, In addition to geographical proximity, we also have a certain understanding of the healthcare structures that are able to take risks in the world of innovation, since innovation means changing, transforming, and not all structures are necessarily organized. And in any case, to be able to respond appropriately to all the proposals that may be put forward by project promoters or companies. This role of local support is often played out at local level, or in any case, this is the vocation we have through our actions.

00:24:15
Lionel Reichardt: Can a developer of innovative healthcare projects find all the support it needs within its local ecosystem?

00:24:22
Gérald Comtet: I think that the environment of a territory or a region, that the right mesh, the regional level, generally enables you to get through the first stages, in any case the ability to perhaps find in the industrial environment, in the environment of university laboratories, research laboratories and then in healthcare establishments or also patient representatives, a favorable ecosystem to develop your solution. So I'd say that the agility of the entrepreneur also means being able, at a given point in his development, to interact with the national level, because even if in a very concrete way, you find interlocutors to implement your solution or more globally, to co-develop it, it's still important, at key stages and not just in the final stages, to interact with the national level, with those in charge of regulations, for example, or in any case evaluation, so as not to make any mistakes in the choices that may be made, particularly in the world of certification, in the environment, or in the regulation of health data. And so, the entrepreneur as such needs to be agile enough to, in a way, mobilize his local network with the aim of co-developing his solution, and even possibly solicit external players when necessary, particularly in the field of technology, laboratories of excellence which are often present in France or Europe. And as soon as necessary. In any case, when they reach critical points in the company's development, interact with national authorities so as to be able to take into account a certain number of regulatory or normative dimensions. And also to open up progressively to the domestic market, since when raising funds, for example, we often ask you to master your domestic market. It's a question of combining the local and the national, or even the more global.

00:26:50
Lionel Reichardt: To conclude, Gérald Comtet, what advice would you give to a digital health innovator who wants to work with their local ecosystem?

00:26:57
Gérald Comtet: Locally, we see a lot of projects go by. Personally, I'd say that one of the pieces of advice we could give entrepreneurs is to start by exploring your network. It's true that the network has been extremely dense over the last fifteen years. There are competitiveness clusters, clusters, entities representing French Tech, and so on. To begin with, the first piece of advice is to explore, not methodically, not to spend too much time on it, but to explore the main players in the area who are, I'd say, network nodes, to interact with them, to form your own opinion in a way, through the first interactions, the first advice, the first orientations or the first actions that are proposed and, in a second phase, to play with this network. It's not a subtle point on my part, but it's a way of identifying the skills available to the entrepreneur. And then, to try and provide regular reference points on the progress of the project, since all our networks operate on the whole in associative formats, with a few exceptions. And it's true that the ability to gather information, advice, attend calls for projects, etc., often starts when you give to the network. The network can give you back as soon as you provide information. In this case, we're not waiting for trade secrets, but we are in a way waiting for regular meeting points so that the interface players, the innovation intermediaries, can send us information, often personalized, relevant to the evolution of the project, and ensure a sufficiently intelligent network so that all the knowledge available in our ecosystems can benefit the entrepreneurs. In a way, this is how we play the network. How do you explore it and how do you send back information, so that you can capitalize and move forward, advance your project, move on to the next stage, master your national and potentially European and global market.

00:29:24
Lionel Reichardt: Thank you very much for all this information and feedback. Our episode is coming to an end. Thank you for listening to us. We thank our two guests for their availability. Don't hesitate to subscribe to the podcast on the listening platforms. We look forward to seeing you soon for a new episode of 100 Days to Success.

00:29:50
Voice-over: Those who are making e-health today and tomorrow are on the G_NIUS podcast and all the solutions to succeed are on genius.esante.gouv.fr